Today is post day for the Barren Bitches Brigade Book Tour #2. In this tour, we read The Children of Men by PD James. This book has recently been popularized by the movie of the same name. I have not seen the movie, but have heard that the book is tons better! Overall, I enjoyed this book. I thought it started slow, but was soon sucked in and couldn’t put it down. Plus, it was not too long, and certainly not too hard to read.
Anyway, part of the book tour is that all of us participating sent in one or more questions. On posting day, we’re each supposed to pick 5 questions from the list and post our answers. So, on with the questions!
6. Would you be able to go through all that Julian went through in order to have her baby in peace and safety?
I’m not sure I would have been able to go through all of that which she did. I admire that she could stand by her convictions, and certainly don’t fault her for it. But I sort of saw Theo’s point Re: how many people who had to die on her quest to have the baby in privacy. I also think that I would like to have everything medically possible available to me. Even if that meant the baby wasn’t born in secret. So, no, I don’t think I’d be able to go through all that she did. I think that would have been really difficult. Not a bad thing, just difficult.
8. What do you think is the significance of the fact that the two people who are finally able to conceive are both considered “flawed?” (Luke had epilepsy and Julian had a deformed hand)
I totally glossed over the fact that Julian had a deformed hand. So I sort of feel bad for missing that detail! But I think that it does show how we often overlook certain people in many aspects of life because they have or don’t have certain traits. Often we are wrong to overlook them. This seems another example of that happening.
11. In describing the world’s “universal bereavement” over it’s lack of children, the narrator tells us, “Only on tape and records to we now hear the voices of children, only on film or on television programmes do we see the bright, moving images of the young. Some find them unbearable to watch but most feed on them as they might a drug.” How is this like your life dealing with infertility? How do you cope when you are confronted with images or reminders that are painful to you?
I think that often those of us struggling with infertility have a difficult time being around other children or pregnant women. Myself included. I particularly seem to have this problem when it is people I don’t know that well. I’m willing to be supportive for those that I do know well, enough so that it doesn’t hurt, as much anyway. But I think I would fall into one of the ones who would not be able to watch those TV shows. People on tv shows would fall into the same boat as those people I don’t know well. But maybe it would be different if that were the only medium in which to see other children. I’m not sure.
16. One of the reason’s I suggested this book to Mel was because of a very thoughtful article in the NY Times by A.O. Scott comparing the film and the novel versions of Children of Men. Scott closes the article with a quotation by James speaking to the differences between what she normally writes — detective novels — and the world she created for Children…. She says, “The detective novel affirms our belief in a rational universe because, at the end, the mystery is solved. In Children of Men there is no such comforting resolution.” The conclusion she leads us to, of course, is that the universe is not nearly so rational, which I thought very aptly describes the world of IF. At the end of the novel, we really don’t know what will happen next — will they find a cure for the world-wide infertility crisis? Will totalitarian rule come to an end in England? Will Theo wield power more wisely than Xan did or will he fall victim to the same peril he saw in Rolf? The haze of uncertainty resonates as it does with parenting-after-infertility because it’s not all happily-ever-after when the wished-for child is born. Does anyone else identify with that? What does it take to deliver ourselves out from our own dystopias?
This is not my question, but I wish it could be! I wanted to ask something about the ending, but couldn’t think of a way to word it. Actually, I was a little uneasy with the uncertainty of the end. I wanted to know if there were going to be other children? What happened next? etc. I also think I’m still struggling with the idea that the emotions of infertility don’t just go away when a child is born. Or even in my case, now being pregnant. Shouldn’t I now be able to see another pregnant woman without feeling hurt? Apparently not. Even though I’ve now achieved that milestone (have a while to get to a birth yet), I can’t just mentally flip a switch and everything be rosy again.
22. The Omegas are portrayed as cruel, self-obsesssed and cold. Do you suppose that’s a function of the way they were raised (as the last generation of children) or something inherent in them? Do you think that infertility has an effect on parenting?
I think that in the case of being the youngest and last generation ever, that society sort of spoiled them, so to speak. So I took it as a function of how they were raised, as reflected by societal views. I don’t feel that I can really say that infertility has an effect on parenting. Perhaps it does for some parents, but maybe not for others. But in the book, I definitely think the Omegas behavior had to do with society in the context of them being the last ones who will live ever. I think in that context, it isn’t surprising that particular generation turned out cruel, self-obsessed and cold.
Intrigued by this book tour and want to read more about Children of Men? Hop along to more stops on the Barren Bitches Book Tour by visiting the master list at Stirrup Queens
( http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/). Want to come along for the next tour? Sign up begins today for tour #3 ( The Time Traveler’s Wife by Audrey Niffenegger) and all are welcome to join along. All you need is a book and blog.
Your answer to the first question, “Would you be able to go through what Julian went through…” made me think a little differently about Theo’s biting remark about how many people have to die for the child to be born. When I think about it, all of the people who died on the journey- Luke, Miriam (with the possible exception of Rolf) were nothing less than totally prepared to die so that the child could be born how Julian wanted. Luke literally sacrifices himself and Miriam insists on running an errand that Theo could just have easily done and knowing the risks to herself. Maybe James is trying to make a statement about what is sometimes required to oppose tyrannical regimes — to accommodate yourself to one makes you an accomplice. One of the basic arcs of the story is Theo’s transformation from professor/observer of history to participant in history — and history, James is saying is complicated, messy and sometimes deadly.
The more I think about how much Julian goes through to give birth the way she wanted to, the more I get annoyed at just how selfish it was. Many good people died so that the child could be born in peace. Maybe I’m a little jaded since I didn’t have the birth that I had wanted, but I still have my daughter. Shouldn’t that have been enough for Julian? Apparently not.
I struggled with some of the same thoughts that you mention in your answer to 16 – still being hurt seeing a pregnant woman, even when I was pregnant. I think the sting of infertility only fades, but maybe doesn’t go away completely. But maybe I’m still to close to it.
I can definitely relate to question 16. My feelings about pregnant women, and women who can be pregnant easily, are still…not the greatest. It affected my relationship with our daughter’s birthmom; 5 years later I’m still struggling with my feelings, as she is too, I know. I still never go to baby showers.
I like your answer to your first question, mainly because when I was PG with my DS, I really didn’t give a crap about birthplans or where the baby would be born and how. I wanted a healthy child and a save arrival. So, I agreed to be induced because he just wasn’t coming on his own, and I did so with full monitoring and an epidural. Some women would probably chastise me for that choice – but, I figured even if I ended up with a c-section (which is what I was expecting), as long as I was more ensured of a safe birth, I didn’t care about my birth experience.
I am sure I would not be able to do what Julian did for a private arrival – I would have wanted more assurances than just privacy.
I loved what you said about not being able to flip a switch and everything be rosy again. C asked me the other night (when I still thought there was a possibility that I was pg) if my SIL’s pregnancy would be easier for me if I was pg too. I thought for a minute, and then pointed out that it might be easier going forward, but it wouldn’t make up for the pain of the last few years. I don’t think that there is anything that will ever take that pain away, not even if I do end up getting pg eventually.
Question 16 (and the person who suggested the book) was Josh’s
I loved what you said about it being easier if you know the person vs. children you see on television. I think those family pregnancies can either be so much easier than the person on the street (I felt that way with my sister’s child) or 10 times harder since you can’t escape those kids unless you’re also skipping family events.
I have to agree with the commenter who feels Julian is selfish. I can understand her fears for safety, but she puts so many others at risk. To me that seems counter-intuitive to all we IFs go through. It seems that most of us are a little too considerate of everyone else’s feelings.
I like the way that you explain the Omegas and their behavior. They were taught that they were the “end all, be all.” It makes sense that they would be so utterly corrupt.
I am the same way, alright with my friends pregnancies, well there is a twinge of hurt but I can work through it, but being in a room of pregnant aquantainces or strangers? I want to run away and set my hair on fire.
I also found the ending unsettling. I closed the book and though, “And now?” It’s a good ending but you do want to know more.
I struggle with other people’s pregnancies a lot, friends more than strangers funnily enough! Good luck with yours, how wonderful that you’re at 8 weeks and things are going well. Good luck with the fish oil tablets!! Have you tried linseeds? Apparently they have omega oils too.
I haven’t tried linseeds. Is that the same as flaxseeds? I think for now I’m just going to hold off on any omega-3 supplements until I start feeling less nauseas.
“I also think I’m still struggling with the idea that the emotions of infertility don’t just go away when a child is born. Or even in my case, now being pregnant. Shouldn’t I now be able to see another pregnant woman without feeling hurt? Apparently not.”
This discussion of yours really hit a note with me. I wasn’t sure whether I would be intruding in some way, participating in the discussion now that I’m pregnant. But every day of this pregnancy has been accompanied by my history of infertility and loss, and there isn’t any setting aside of that no matter how hard I try. I work next to a hospital and see pg women all the time walking on the sidewalk, and I often assume, automatically, it was easy for that woman; she’s likely enjoying her pregnancy with an innocence I can’t. It’s all overdramatic and wrong, I know, but it’s fueled, nonetheless by that sadness behind.
As for the Omegas, I’m interested in how they become a sort of stand in for the “male response” to infertility–how the violence of the Painted Faces, for example, seems a kind of male parallel to the women pushing prams with dolls and christening kittens. But also how James doesn’t make this overt.
Interesting answers, all
Thank You